Karate for me has always first been a way of life, a way to better myself physically and mentally. I doubt there is a big difference in our approach to separating sport karate from the true meaning of Budo. Chincuchi over Kime. This really shows your misunderstanding of Japanese karate. The use of the whole body to generate power and punch through your target is a concept we know very well. I have never had any Sensei tell me I must freeze my techniques at a fixed point.
Now the hand does stop when the arm is fully extended. I really don't know where this idea comes from. Now you got me there we don't do weapons. Jujutsu was the unarmed defense of the Samurai and there are many movements in Jujutsu that come from sword movements. Old School strength tools. You got me again. We don't use these at all. Tuidi Techniques.
As I have said we are based in Jujutsu. Close quarters combat, joint manipulation, take downs, attacks to nerves and vital areas. Our style of Jujutsu stressed Atemi Waza. Attacks to vital areas. I find it a little humorous that you have a picture of Motobu Choki Sensei since our Grand Master trained with him, especially concerning the kata Nihanshi and its applications. Individuation over Mass training.
You are correct about the Universities and tournaments in Japan during the 50's and 60's causing a large rise in the number of people studying karate. But to say that we change our technique to teach to mass classes is not the case, not for our Dojo anyway. This is the exception not the rule.
There are several high ranking Sensei working the class so the quality of the training was never changed because of the size of the class. It is true that it is more difficult to give individual attention to large classes.
Our Dojos do not let the size of the class become so large we can't give individual attention where it is needed. You simply have more classes. You would quickly lose students if your classes were too large. You are right again. We don't use your nomenclature. So in conclusion before you attempt to explain differences martial arts do a little more research.
Your article comes across as degrading to Japanese Karate, I don't think that this was your intention. At least I hope it was not your intention. I for one have never said anything bad about another style of martial art.
I feel every true martial art is a unique entity unto itself. Each art that has been around for a while is a good martial art but it is only as good as the Sensei instructing their students and every style of martial art has good instructors and bad instructors. It always surprises me when someone puts out an article on a blog, however, that posters respond so personally. Japanese karate. I'm not a Wado Ryu practitioner, or a practitioner of Japanese karate. So there is no way I for one, or the author for that matter can be expected, to speak to the level of a highly experienced Japanese karateka, here Wado Ryu, such as yourself.
I have also trained this way myself. How this convention fits into traditional karate training is a key question highlighted by the authors discussion. I also believe that this method is a means to develop more of the isometric strength sought by traditional karate training, AND more importantly mental discipline. The fact that differing karate styles have conventions that some may take issue with, either out of lack of understanding, or alternatively out of better understanding as the case may be, is not patently degrading to the one having a difference of opinion.
Personally, I don't care for the Japanese styles of traditional karate. I also believe they are greatly under-rated by many in the martial arts community and especially by those in the MMA community.
Great Post!!!! Of course it was degrading. It was why Okinawan karate was superior to Japanese karate. Every system has its place and each of these systems have attributes that make them appealing but no one system is superior to another except to each individual and they choose the system that appeals to their interests.
My point is comparisons like this one are generally made by someone who knows their style very well and has little concept of the other system. They are usually made by younger practitioners who have got it all figured out. As I stated I would never make statements like this about another system because I don't have the knowledge of the other system necessary to make the comparison.
Like you just did with your statements about MMA. You see we do have several practitioners who have taken their art to the ring. In the 90's we had three from the Dojo, where I began my training, who were world rated professional kick boxers, long before MMA. We have a family of brothers and their father in Nashville who have several belts in MMA. There is one of our senior Black Belts who also teaches Gracie Jujutsu and makes trips to Brazil to train where we also have a large following in Wado Ryu.
So you see when you make assumptions about anything you set your self up to look foolish. Just as you could be considered an expert in Wado Ryu, I don't see how I need to be in expert in every style of traditional karate in order to have opinion which may be valid in some way. BTW, there is another gentleman who has posted elsewhere on this blog who is equally critical of my support for the Japanese karate styles, such as Shotokan. Rather than face MMA, I guess you and this gentleman should face off and resolve the strong feelings I never said that traditional karate-based fighters couldn't succeed or haven't succeeded as professional kickboxers or MMA fighters.
For the record, I do believe that certain karate styles are better than others. Moreover, I consider the style I practice to be among the more rudimentary, IOW not the 'best' by any means. I also believe that the traditional karate styles, including Wado Ryu, are superior to the conventional training we see in MMA.
That's my opinion February 3, at pm. When you make a post describing differences between specific aspects of different systems of karate people expect them to be true and not opinions.
You are espousing knowledge that is to be taken as fact. Just because you have an opinion has no relevance when stating fact. My post was to explain the facts as they apply to my style of Japanese Karate and correct the errors stated in the article.
When you say I think my style is the best style because What is wrong is when you state your opinion as fact and expect others to respect your opinion. This is where your opinion loses any respect, when you espouse that opinion as a fact and not just your opinion. If you want your opinion respected then don't promote it as fact. My objection to the article was that it generalized Japanese karate and made assumptions that were not true of my system of Japanese Karate.
It was not an opinion piece it made statements that were to be taken as fact. I just wanted to set the record straight not just give an opinion. October 2, at am. As much as I enjoy reading Jesse's articles, I too find this article very degrading to Japanese Karate. To those who think and say that Shotokan is not practical, with all do respect, I say, they're full of it.
In reality Japanese Karate is a mixed martial art since throwing, grapling, joint manipulating, sweeping etc. If it wasn't for Funakoshi's Shotokan first steps of demonstrating and propagating Karate to the public, who knows when would it see the "daylight". As Gene Foster mentioned, there is a general misunderstanding of Japanese Karate, and looks like on part of Jesse's as well.
Shotokan especially JKA emphasizes building the foundation first hence low and long stances, Kyokushin training structure is similar, that's KIHON basics, the actual combat is another story.
You cannot build a house on a weak foundation. You can have library of fancy movements in your head, but without the foundation, they are useless. Karate was introduced to the public as a way of life, means of healthy living, right action, benevolence and self defense. In real life, are we really gonna break people's arms, displace their knees, hold them in an arm bar True Martial Artist knows that it doesn't take long to cripple or kill a person. As an instructor, I have to differentiate between a general athlete and competitor, child and adult.
I respect all traditional Karate styles, there's a benefit in every single one of them. It is enough that we have to deal with Mcdojos. The comparisons articles of this kind, degrading one style or another are not to be expected of true Budoka at least out of respect. We shall not forget the true essence of Budo I trust you know what it is. I'd like to end with a strong OSU!! I know what it means to me Oshi Shinobu, Endure under pressure!! If it is not a part of your dojo or organization, have a decency to respect those who's is.
Rob S. Everyone knows Kyokushin isn't designed for practicality, but for looks. It's a style created by a Korean if I'm not mistaken for tournaments. Whether the original intent was for tournaments or not, it has evolved into such. I mean, have you seen Kyokushin Kumite tournaments I can't help but just laugh. March 10, at am. Great comment Rob. Couldn't agree more. I started out with Shudokan a spin-off of Shotokan whe I was 8 and finished when I was While it taught me many great things, it was focused on tournament and exhibition.
Perhaps your obscure style might have a mix of all sorts of different stuff to make it a little more well-rounded. I wouldn't brag about being a direct lineage of Funakoshi Sensei, because while he was a great karateka, he didn't teach his students as well as he could have. When I finally came to Okinawa and have lived here 10 years now , I tried a few styles until I found one that was a good balance between my old "Shudokan" and Goju-ryu The first style I started when I came to Okinawa.
I will tell you there are some huge differences. You learn more combat style training. At the lower belts, it feels similar to Japanese Karate, but as you start approaching shodan you are more exposed to some dangerous stuff. Not sure what Jesse is saying about the OSS thing though, it is used out here. It's probably just used in a completely different way. Oss has more of an "Umph! January 27, at pm. Just curious: 1.
I have heard and read that there are hundreds of Karate dojos in Okinawa. This list also includes Japanese karate style dojos like Shotokan or Kyokushin?
Thanks everyone for your help and keep the hard work. Arigatou gozaimasu. January 29, at pm. Hi Jonathan-san! Generally no. It's considered a Japanese style. Yes, it includes the comparatively few dojos of Japanese styles like Shotokan and Kyokushin. Hope this answers your questions! Okinawans still consider themselves Okinawans. And Shotokan is a watered-down version of what Funakoshi Sensei knew, so no, it's not considered and Okinawan style. Kyokushin, being a tournament style, is popular in all of Japan including Okinawa.
It's probably the most well known. However, it only has a few dojos in Okinawa. Shotokan isn't even talked about. Paul M. January 28, at pm. Dear Jesse, I really enjoyed reading your article. I trained in Wado-ryu karate for many years, graded to 1st Kyu level in Shotokan, and within the past 7 years have practised and achieved 1st Dan a classical form of Okinawan karate, called Ko-Do Ryu, which incorporates kata and bunkai from Goju-ryu, uechi-ryu,shito-ryu and other Okinawan originated styles.
What struck me most and also feature as key points in your article are the competitive nature of Japanese karate styles I used to enjoy competing in point based tournaments in my younger years , when compared to the non-sport nature of Okinawan styles. This contrasting experience has really helped me to get more from my karate.
Ironically, and unfortunately as my local KoDo-ryu dojo was forced to close, I have recently starting training in Kyokushin karate, which is about as far removed from Ko-Do Ryu as I can get.
Keep up the good work on the blog and with the Seishin Gi business. I just read some very long winded, opionated statements which seems to be an attempt to prove some people's opinions to be false. In the 53 years since I started karate training, I have trained with both Okinawan and Japanese instructors, and found both systems to be beneficial and useful.
I am not sure it is important to prove who is better or worse. I simply try to gain useful information from whomever I train with. February 4, at am. One of my opinions is that traditional karate is very sophisticated. Maybe that's why there's so many different karate styles--opinions on how to approach karate. Why be afraid of that? I respect the author's piece, especially since the Japanese karates evolved out of the Okinawan karates, to do a little synthesis, liking to the author's "Karate-Tree Piece.
The fact that posters go into specifics with analysis leads to competence, IMO. I do completely agree with Gene on overly-broad generalizations. Wasn't this the exact theme of one of the author's comparisons?
February 7, at am. There is nothing wrong with attempting to prove which style is better. Though, it appears that thin-skinned people do so, taking insult that they could be viewed as having a less than equal fighting system than another. It is natural that curious people would probe things relative to one another and then locate those things on a continuum from worst to best. To say that all are equal is just ludicrous. And if all cannot be equal, then surely there is a worst and best existing on the far ends.
Vanity seems to be standing in the way of people who cannot entertain the thought that someone is practicing a superior fighting style than themselves.
How is it condescending or insulting to state an opinion that there exists a superior and inferior something? Oh wait, that's right, society has moved in the direction that everyone gets a ribbon just for entering an event. We're all champions! God forbid someone's feelings get hurt. February 19, at am. An interchange of ideas provokes a learning environment. I believe the overview comparison put forth in the article greatly aids that process Remembering, in competitive kumite, there is only 1 winner Thanks again If I remember correctly, one way in which all karate is the same is the concept that "karate begins and ends with courtesy".
How right you are Ian. Unfortunately, this is the way of Martial Arts these days! My style is better than your style February 9, at am. Whoop's, struck a nerve hey? Ian, you're still right. This Martial World has become so 'commercial'. Get over it! Your style is better than mine and I don't give a damn! Does that make you feel better??
This all started over a great article published and got well out of hand. Mmmm, may have to unsubscribe, I just can't compete with the better styles :. Ah, c'mon, man. It's just talk. That's all. We all need to have thicker skin for Christ sakes. Robust discussion is best. Noth'n wrong with a little jostl'n over which style is better. Just got a little defensive I suppose?
Na, I'm not going to unsubscribe. February 13, at pm. While many believe that Karate has just one form and style from its native land, this articles breaks down such beliefs and tells us that there is lot more forms and styles practiced in various regions that are unique and distinct.
Thanks for sharing this informative post!! Dear Jesse, Thanks for sharing this great article. After reading this article i can really see that Okinawan Karate has such a different 'mindset' than Japanese Karate does. I've been praticing Shotokan Karate for a long time now and I really appreciate all you're articles. As you might understood from reading my name i come from the Netherlands, in my country Shotokan Karate is the most popular style.
My sensei Jaap Smaal 7th dan is such an amazing teacher with so much knowledge about Shotokan but also he knows alot about traditional Okinawan Karate , recently we trained the very very old version of the kata Bassai-dai. I also love the way he teaches, him being on of the students of sensei Taiji Kase he really teaches the old school 'shut up and train' way, but also with a great sense of humor, Greetings from the Netherlands , Osu i apologize if my english wasn't that good xd. February 24, at am.
A few words on Shotokan. Shotokan always gets singled out as the ineffective style with funny low stances etc. There are good and bad Shotokan clubs, just as there are good and bad clubs of other styles.
To me, club or style is good if the bunkai practiced meets the objective, and the objective should be towards effective defense against aggression on the street like the old masters said. BUT Shotokan was not alone in this as I have seen plenty of other styles demonstrating dodgy bunkai. Shotokan was just the most popular style at the time these applications were being propagated ie mid 20th century both in Japan and elsewhere.
Discussion forums like this and others are a great place for people to learn the history of the styles and see the common roots and the sometimes forgotten common purpose. The easy thing to do is look a karate style, here Shotokan, and point out something that seems lacking. There was a coincident move toward using traditional karate training to promote social objectives. No one has to go out an perform all the bunkai exactly as demonstrated.
The purpose of the bunkai was to present principles or example-movements that could be employed by various alternatives for actual application. Do some work, it takes some work, to interpret bunkai this way. Put on an interpretation, usage that is practical. February 26, at pm.
I really like your article I was patiently awaiting for a good article- and my patience just deserved a prize. With my best regards, M. February 27, at am. Horton Deakins. March 1, at am. Arigato gozaimasu. I'm very tempted to say, "Oss! My sensei's sensei was Japanese, but his sensei was from Okinawa Seikichi Touguchi. In the US you pretty much have to do whatever keeps you in business. That's unfortunate, but a reality. Our stances were pretty deep, but we were always told our style was a close-in type of fighting, and there was, and still is, a constant effort to be authentic.
March 5, at pm. Jesse, Can you possibly do a primer on the weapons you mentioned in this article? My Sensei teach the first six, but I've never seen the last four. It would be nice to know what they look like and a bit of history. March 19, at am. I'm not sure Karate is really Okinawan, rather than Japanese People get hung up on style, and on details.
Karate seems to be quite a lot Chinese to me. It's quite recognisable in the Shaolin kung-fu form. The sequence therefore is Chinese kung-fu and not Okinawan karate Obviously when you use a technique against someone, there is no style, you just make it work. Lets put it this way. If style mattered then in the mess of combat karate and kung-fu could never be made to work. Therefore style cannot matter. The reason we get hung up on styles is we don't understand what our martial art is and start emphasising irrelevant details.
July 16, at am. Great observation. A lot of practitioners don't know that Karate is the Okinawan adaptation of Chinese Kung Fu southern white. The Ryukyu kingdom had a community of Chinese diplomats at Kume Mura now called Naha that shared the Chinese martial arts with the Okinawans, who then adopted and modified the kata and added them to the indigenous Ryukyu Ti.
If you can, pick up a copy of the Bubishi aka the karate "bible" and you'll be amazed by the rich history of Okinawan Karate. January 11, at am. Not only that, Chinese fighters used those same training tools to condition themselves. They also have tuishou which means push hands in Chinese Basically a close range training exercise to teach sensitivity if arms ever meet.
Seems mainland Japan is trying to make everyone adopt the idea that they're a unique culture by changing parts of their history. September 15, at am. I mean, just look at the names, Shaolin, Shorin. L and R is pretty much an interchangeable sound in Japan. Okinawans definitely know about their rich Chinese influenced heritage. The main difference is that Okinawans incorporate a lot of their original Martial Arts Ti as well.
Bryan Alstat. April 19, at pm. Now I understand why I have a hard time understanding and being understood by Japanese Karate Practitioners. I am an Okinawan Practitioner for over 22 years. We speak different languages, aka styles and philosophies. I watch tournaments and ask myself - how would you use that technique what are the Bunkai? I now understand - we just have different training and understanding.
Tom Heenan. August 1, at am. Interesting article! As a student of natural history as well as Karate I do have to argue with one point though It's a nice saying but unfortunately not true :-P. Next time you come to Okinawa, you should come train with us at Nix Dojo. It's a little American English flavor mixed into the Okinawan style training.
September 18, at pm. Andy Wheeler. October 10, at am. I believe that once you accept that Japanese styles are the way they are for a reason. Certain training practices, techniques were changed to suit the traditions of the audience to ensure that the Karate being taught was accepted.
Once you accept that, you can move beyond mere Styles. I practice Shotokan, simply because that was the style that most dojo' taught when I started on my journey. However I am not, nor do I encourage my Students to be a "Stylist". When Okinawan Karate was brought to the mainland of Japan, many of the traditions were lost in translation due to language differences at the time. This caused Japanese Karate to focus more on the action rather than what the name or term of the stance or strike was.
Japanese Karate was also influenced by other, more established martial arts at the time where optimal movement patterns were of greater importance too. For Okinawan Karate however, the tradition and the understanding remained, causing the two traditions to focus on totally different things today. Your email address will not be published. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.
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How Okinawan Karate is different to Japanese Karate. Category: Karate By martial May 30, 1 Comment. Author: martial. Related Posts. Quite naturally, this aspects of combat also involves other nasty things like choking, unbalancing, throwing, trapping hands, hiting pressure points and nerve bundles. These things are rarely taught in regular Jaoanese karate classes. It is because Japanese Karate was heavily influenced by pre-existing martial traditions when it was introduced from Okinawa.
The original, short, fighting range was changed to a longer one and concepts like "maai" engagement distancing were borrowed straight from Japanese samurai words fencing Kendo. Therefore, the concept of 'tuidi' is not important in Japanese Karate, but in Okinawan Karate it is still being practiced.
A common Okinawan exercise for practising tuidi is called 'kakie' a sensory flow drill, often called "pushing hands" in the West. No comments:. Newer Post Older Post Home. Subscribe to: Post Comments Atom. The Rules of Karate Assalamualaikum and Hi there, In this blog, we will explain you guys about the important rules that should be
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